Designer Selling Microsoft Clip Art As "Logos"

Discussion:

(too old to reply)

Krystal

2008-03-19 14:35:03 UTC

Hi! I recently had a designer (website: http://izabegraphicdesign.com)
attempt a logo for my company. One of the logos looked really familiar, but I
couldn't place it.

I ended up terminating my relationship with this designer, but have recently
discovered that she used Microsoft Clip Art in all of the logos she proposed
to me. I took a look through her profile today, and realized that there were
many "logos" using the clip art taken directly from the website.

I wanted to let Microsoft know that she is selling your clip art as her own
work. In her Terms, she states that she will transfer the copyrights to the
logo to the owner. It's my understanding that she cannot transfer a copyright
she does not own.

I can only imagine what would have happened if I had chosen one of her logos
and attempted to trademark it.

If you check her portfolio (top right tab) you will see the logos I'm
referring to. I didn't take the time to check all of her logos, but the ones
I noticed right off were: Bottle Swaddles, Brand Name Baby, and Ingrid B.

Please let me know if you need any more information.

Krystal Kelly

Mary Sauer

2008-03-19 16:33:42 UTC

Permalink

You might want to read this:
http://www.microsoft.com/piracy/reporting/default.aspx
--
Mary Sauer MSFT MVP
http://office.microsoft.com/
http://msauer.mvps.org/
news://msnews.microsoft.com

Post by Krystal
Hi! I recently had a designer (website: http://izabegraphicdesign.com)
attempt a logo for my company. One of the logos looked really familiar, but I
couldn't place it.
I ended up terminating my relationship with this designer, but have recently
discovered that she used Microsoft Clip Art in all of the logos she proposed
to me. I took a look through her profile today, and realized that there were
many "logos" using the clip art taken directly from the website.
I wanted to let Microsoft know that she is selling your clip art as her own
work. In her Terms, she states that she will transfer the copyrights to the
logo to the owner. It's my understanding that she cannot transfer a copyright
she does not own.
I can only imagine what would have happened if I had chosen one of her logos
and attempted to trademark it.
If you check her portfolio (top right tab) you will see the logos I'm
referring to. I didn't take the time to check all of her logos, but the ones
I noticed right off were: Bottle Swaddles, Brand Name Baby, and Ingrid B.
Please let me know if you need any more information.
Krystal Kelly

Lisa

2008-03-20 22:12:01 UTC

Permalink

Kelly,
This is quite a shock to see you over here talking about me like this. Then
again, I wouldn't put it passed you after the things you pulled over your
logo design. Just to set the record straight, I do not use Microsoft for
clipart for logo design. I have CDs full of royalty free artwork that I use
only after they are altered to fit the design. If you would have clearly read
my terms, I do not claim to hand drawn any of my graphics from scratch. If
this were the case, I would surely charge more than $85.00 for a logo design.
I also never stated that you could take the design and have it trademarked. I
stated that you didn't have the right to use any of the proofs after you
canceled the order because you wanted to take them and resale them on eBay.

Before you go around trying to tarnish anyones reputation, you may want to
explain the circumstances in which this all came about. The fact that after
the first set of proofs were sent, you changed your concept completely. When
I was going to charge you an additional fee for the changes, you decided that
it would be best to threaten a fraudulent chargeback through your credit card
company to get all of your money back, even though I had spent an great deal
of time on the first round of proofs. I even sent a second round free of
charge to try and make you happy but by then it was too late. I don't take
threats of fraud lightly and that is why I think we are in this situation.

I am truly sorry that people have to read this but I can't sit by and let
someone speak ill of me or my company because of something so unnecessary. In
our last correspondence, I thought the whole situation was resolved but I see
that it is not. I will leave you with nothing but well wishes for you and
your business.

Post by Mary Sauer
http://www.microsoft.com/piracy/reporting/default.aspx
--
Mary Sauer MSFT MVP
http://office.microsoft.com/
http://msauer.mvps.org/
news://msnews.microsoft.com

Krystal

2008-03-21 20:53:02 UTC

Permalink

As I stated previously, I'm concerned because all but one of the clip art
images in the logos proposed to me by Izabe appear in the Microsoft Clip Art
Gallery. And several of the logos in her portfolio appear in the Microsoft
Gallery as well. The Clip Art Gallery is easily searchable, so anyone who
wishes to confirm this can check for him- or herself.

It sounds as if the CD's the designer is using contains clip art available
elsewhere. Obviously, one of those places it is also available is the
Microsoft Clip Art Gallery.

Microsoft's clip art EULA appears here:
http://www.microsoft.com/about/legal/permissions/default.mspx#E4

The EULA states that the clip art images cannot be used to advertise a
business and they cannot be used in a logo.

We as small business owners could be put at risk. If a business owner has a
logo featuring an image included in the Microsoft Clip Art Gallery how can
she be sure she is not in violation of Microsoft's terms?

I would encourage anyone looking for a logo design to be very careful. There
are designers out there who charge reasonable rates and do not use clip art
in logos. I have found one who is amazing to work with and who will go the
extra mile to help her customers. I initially ruled her out because she was a
little more expensive than others. I quickly realized that by the time I paid
concept change fees and fees for extra revisions I could have just hired her
in the first place. If you're looking for a logo design, don't let price
dictate your entire decision.

If your designer does use clip art, then make sure you examine the Terms of
Use for each image in the logo. I myself have used a lot of royalty free clip
art, and all of it has specifically stated that it cannot be used for logos.
Royalty free does not mean "copyright free." Royalty free clip art is
oftentimes licensed to the end user, not sold. A designer cannot transfer a
copyright that she herself does not own, and if she has used licensed royalty
free images in her work, chances are really good she does not own the
copyright. It only takes one or two email messages to find out what the terms
of use stipulate.

I'm not trying to get any personal attacks going. This issue is a big deal
to all of us small businesses. I had no idea that Izabe Graphic Design used
clip art in logo design. If I had known, then I would have chosen someone
else to design my logo. If I had known to ask, then I would have asked.

A growing number of businesses are trademarking logos. With websites such as
Legal Zoom, it is an easy and relatively inexpensive process. If I cannot
trademark my logo, then what is the point of having one?

I have no intention of slandering Izabe Graphic Design. I'm positive Lisa's
intent in using clip art in her designs is good; she wants to offer an
affordable product to small businesses. We can all appreciate that.

I am merely pointing out the fact that several images used in her logos
appear in Microsoft's Clip Art Gallery. I'm sure that there are MANY people
out there who, like me, are hiring designers thinking her logo will be
one-of-a-kind and will be hers alone. If this is not the case, then we, as
consumers, deserve to know this before we go to the trouble of basing our
entire business identity on a piece of clip art widely available on the web.

Carrie

2008-03-27 02:32:00 UTC

Permalink

Post by Krystal

Post by Krystal
I myself have used a lot of royalty free clip

art, and all of it has specifically stated that it cannot be used for logos.

It says this in the Terms of Use?
I thought it was only you can't put it in collections of clip art (to
sell) as clip art.

But I haven't looked lately and only asked about it several years ago.
And, I'm not working in a professional way, like making money, and if I was
I probably wouldn't use clip art.

I remember asking if I could use it for something I produced and sold,
like greeting cards or in flyers (I might make for someone), business cards,
etc.

If someone isn't supposed to use it in a logo, and did, they might have
got it elsewhere and not realized it was from Microsoft and not supposed to
be used that way.

I remember once I wanted to use a picture of a fairy on my website and it
said on it very clearly it wasn't to be used, and they'd prosecute, etc. so
I didn't use it. For years since, I have seen the picture in many places and
different ways. With no copyright or permission and even in clip art. So,
apparently, at some point, a picture gets taken and used and passed around
till nobody knows where it came from.

Post by Krystal
As I stated previously, I'm concerned because all but one of the clip art
images in the logos proposed to me by Izabe appear in the Microsoft Clip Art
Gallery. And several of the logos in her portfolio appear in the Microsoft
Gallery as well. The Clip Art Gallery is easily searchable, so anyone who
wishes to confirm this can check for him- or herself.
It sounds as if the CD's the designer is using contains clip art available
elsewhere. Obviously, one of those places it is also available is the
Microsoft Clip Art Gallery.
http://www.microsoft.com/about/legal/permissions/default.mspx#E4
The EULA states that the clip art images cannot be used to advertise a
business and they cannot be used in a logo.
We as small business owners could be put at risk. If a business owner has a
logo featuring an image included in the Microsoft Clip Art Gallery how can
she be sure she is not in violation of Microsoft's terms?
I would encourage anyone looking for a logo design to be very careful. There
are designers out there who charge reasonable rates and do not use clip art
in logos. I have found one who is amazing to work with and who will go the
extra mile to help her customers. I initially ruled her out because she was a
little more expensive than others. I quickly realized that by the time I paid
concept change fees and fees for extra revisions I could have just hired her
in the first place. If you're looking for a logo design, don't let price
dictate your entire decision.
If your designer does use clip art, then make sure you examine the Terms of
Use for each image in the logo. I myself have used a lot of royalty free clip
art, and all of it has specifically stated that it cannot be used for logos.
Royalty free does not mean "copyright free." Royalty free clip art is
oftentimes licensed to the end user, not sold. A designer cannot transfer a
copyright that she herself does not own, and if she has used licensed royalty
free images in her work, chances are really good she does not own the
copyright. It only takes one or two email messages to find out what the terms
of use stipulate.
I'm not trying to get any personal attacks going. This issue is a big deal
to all of us small businesses. I had no idea that Izabe Graphic Design used
clip art in logo design. If I had known, then I would have chosen someone
else to design my logo. If I had known to ask, then I would have asked.
A growing number of businesses are trademarking logos. With websites such as
Legal Zoom, it is an easy and relatively inexpensive process. If I cannot
trademark my logo, then what is the point of having one?
I have no intention of slandering Izabe Graphic Design. I'm positive Lisa's
intent in using clip art in her designs is good; she wants to offer an
affordable product to small businesses. We can all appreciate that.
I am merely pointing out the fact that several images used in her logos
appear in Microsoft's Clip Art Gallery. I'm sure that there are MANY people
out there who, like me, are hiring designers thinking her logo will be
one-of-a-kind and will be hers alone. If this is not the case, then we, as
consumers, deserve to know this before we go to the trouble of basing our
entire business identity on a piece of clip art widely available on the web.

Carrie

2008-03-27 02:23:05 UTC

Permalink

When I first started using Word and Publisher, I asked on one of these
newsgroups about using the clip art and what I could/couldn't use it for.

The way I remember it, I could use it for anything EXCEPT selling it in a
collection (or part of one) of clip art.

I was using some of the clip art to print greeting cards, at one time I
thought about making and selling these. Either using the clip art, or
pictures of my own I was experimenting. But I wanted to check to make sure.

Actually, I have seen at least one Christmas card in past years (sold in
stores) that has the exact same clip art design I've seen in Microsoft Clip
Art (holiday picture of a bird) I noticed it because it was one I had tried
on a card, in my practicing.

But, I'm sure Microsoft appreciates your concern about them getting ripped
off.

Carrie

2008-03-27 03:01:22 UTC

Permalink

Post by Carrie
When I first started using Word and Publisher, I asked on one of these
newsgroups about using the clip art and what I could/couldn't use it for.
The way I remember it, I could use it for anything EXCEPT selling it in a
collection (or part of one) of clip art.
I was using some of the clip art to print greeting cards, at one time I
thought about making and selling these. Either using the clip art, or
pictures of my own I was experimenting. But I wanted to check to make sure.
Actually, I have seen at least one Christmas card in past years (sold in
stores) that has the exact same clip art design I've seen in Microsoft
Clip Art (holiday picture of a bird) I noticed it because it was one I had
tried on a card, in my practicing.
But, I'm sure Microsoft appreciates your concern about them getting ripped
off.

I was reading down this newsgroup (which I just joined a few hours ago)
and realize a lot of it is about what the clip art can or can't be used
for.I thought going by the title it was more about, well "clip art" using
it, posting new art people might make, and want to share, etc.

It's been several years since I asked on one of the ng about using it,
and I must have misunderstood at the time, or it's been changed since then.

I'm not any kind of a professional, just learning and practicing and
doing creative things that I enjoy doing. I don't think I've ever used
Microsoft clip art for anything other than practicing, and usually forget
it's there. I put in "free clip art" in google and what I'm looking for and
have whole files of bookmarks for this.

I'm glad I joined here and read about this, because I was under the
impression that the clip art could be used for anything that wasn't an
actual "clip art collection" (or any of it was included in it). I don't know
what anyone would use it for, going by the terms of use, except to practice
something or add as a decoration when writing/printing a personal letter
(which I have done, like adding a little flower or something) Oh, I also
make personal calendars for Christmas to give to family members, with
holidays and birthdays for the coming year and have used clip art for this
(like a birthday cake, or Christmas design) I've also used it (and other
clip art) on address labels but didn't make any money from it, so that's
probably personal use.

I'm actually glad you wrote about this here, even though I think I
misunderstood what you were saying at first, because now I know and won't
take any chances using Microsoft clipart and maybe getting turned in,
arrested, sued, or whatever they do to people who break their rules.

Actually, if I want to take the time, I can make my OWN clip art.

Post by Carrie